Tuesday, October 31, 2006

10/31/06 An Implicit Extraordinary Session? and the June 14 '03 Letter re. Dissolution of Presbytery

From: Stan B.
To: G. Price, G. Barrow, L. Dohms, List
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 8:49 PM
Subject: Concerns regarding the interpretation of the letter of June 14, 2003

October 31, 2006

Dear Mr. Price, Mr. Barrow, and Mr. Dohms,

I have hesitated to write publicly until now, choosing instead to engage with you privately, as I have done on a number of occasions (as you know). However, in your recent email (Oct. 28, 2006), there is one argument that I find particularly troubling. I ask for your patience to hear my point of view. You write, "Thus we maintain that the Letter of June 14, 2003 accurately describes the authority of the Session (albeit an extraordinary Session), and it also reveals that those who were previously members under the inspection of the Presbytery of the RPNA remained under the inspection of the Session of the RPNA (GM)." Although I have no way of judging your intentions when you wrote that letter (June 14, 2003), I do not believe that its contents support this assertion of yours. On the contrary, I believe that the letter clearly indicates that no such Session exists.

Looking at the letter itself (which is included at the bottom of this email for your convenience), the word "Session" appears seven times:

Monday, October 30, 2006

Extracts from Gillespie on Excommunication

Extracts of Gillespie on Excommunication
(from a work in slow progress)

Congregational Consent to Excommunication
Gillespie in Assertion of Church Government of Scotland of Scotland previous to the first quote on the page in the PPSA (p.16) says regarding the question of the congregation’s consent to an excommunication:

One scruple more may peradventure remain. They will say, it is well that we require the church's consent before any weighty matter which concerneth all be finished; but what if this consent be not had? Whether may the eldership cut off an offender renitente ecclesia? For their satisfaction in this also, we say with Zeperus [De Pol. Eccl., lib. 1. cap. 19.], Quod si ecclesia, &c.-'But if the church, (saith he) will not approve the sentence of excommunication, nor hold it valid, and they see many disagreeing among themselves, {42.b.} and schisms, and greater evils in the church, to follow this sentence of excommunication; the elders shall not proceed to excommunication, but shall patiently suffer what cannot with the good leave of the church be amended. In the meanwhile they shall publicly and privately admonish and exhort.' So saith Zanchius,16 that without the consent of the church no man ought to be excommunicated.

10/30/06, Integritas Ecclesia's Comparison of the PPSA and the Terms of Communion

[Missed this one in the first go around, but a pretty good (anonymous!) analysis of the PPSA according to the RP terms of communion.]

From: Integritas Ecclesia (aka Idgar Ebarra? though he won't admit it.)
To: List
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 1:37 PM
Subject: Elder's Response to S of PG's Complaint

Dear Elders and Brethren,

Just a brief comment and some observations.

I am allayed that the Elders have provided us their response to PGS' complaint and protest. It is revealing and helpful for all of us to know their response.

Many of our brothers and sisters have stated that the Elders have answered using Scripture, our faithful Subordinate Standards, and Historical Example(s). I would agree that any answer dealing with the advancement of doctrine must be answered with Scripture first and fore-most and with our Standards secondly. However, the question needs to be put forward; have our Elders done so as our brethren have asserted?

10/30/06, Carnal Graffiti and the Word of God: Disproved and Disapproved.

A Brief Follow up to The New Paganism which is a Response to Tattoos And The Word Of God [no longer available at Albany CPRChurch].
It has been said by some that:

If one of those practices [in Lev. 19] was absolutely forbidden for all time, then all of those practices were likewise forbidden for all time. If it was an absolute moral prohibition to mark oneself on the body because it was unlawful in itself, then it was likewise an absolute moral prohibition to cut one’s hair in a circle, trim one’s beard and shave the hair between the eyes or eyebrows because these practices were unlawful in themselves. Yet a faithful and consistent interpretation of God’s Word and faithful commentators and divines from the past unite their voices in declaring that these practices were not unlawful in themselves, but became unlawful due to the direct association they had with pagan worship and superstitions (Tattoos And The Word Of God [as above, no longer available on the original site] , p.3).

In contrast, we would assert that this is to misstate the question. We know fortune telling/enchantments/signs of the times is wrong. So too prostitution. Yet these two verses bookend the passage in Lev. 19 regarding cutting and/or making marks upon oneself. Arguably at least or only the first, fortune telling, is associated with doing something “for the dead,” but both ipso facto are unlawful are they not?

Saturday, October 28, 2006

10/28/06 Elders' Response to "Public Protest and Complaint" of SPG

From: Lyndon Dohms
To: List
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: Session Response to "Public Protest and Complaint"

October 28, 2006
Dear Brothers and Sisters,
We, as a Session, bring to you our response to the "Public Protest and Complaint" that was submitted to you by the Prince George Society (October 18, 2006). This is not a response that we approach lightly or casually. It is a response we offer (by God’s grace) in the fear of God and in sincere love for the brothers and sisters in Prince George as well as for you all. It is a faithful testimony that we bear in the presence of our Triune God and all of His creation.
"Also now, behold, my witness is in heaven, and my record is on high" (Job 16:19).
"Hear ye now what the LORD saith; Arise, contend thou before the mountains, and let the hills hear thy voice" (Micah 6:1).

Background We find this to be especially difficult because we have shared such profitable and frequent times of fellowship and worship together with the brethren in Prince George over many years. Regular visits were made to Prince George during the years every six to seven weeks and were lengthened when the Session became busier with visits to other Societies to every ten to twelve weeks during the years . These visits to Prince George were also supplemented at different times by visits the families made to Edmonton which likewise were times of great joy and encouragement to us all. We believe our commitment to care for and shepherd the flock in Prince George was one which we took very seriously. Visits thereafter continued less frequently over the next few years as the membership increased, thus increasing visits and phone calls to others in the United States and Canada.

Saturday, October 21, 2006

10/21/06, "Schism" from Scripture-Warnings at HushMail.com

From: scripture_warnings@hushmail.com
To: scripture_warnings@hushmail.com
[Bcc: List]
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Schism

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should
be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all
passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the
cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that
spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But
with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were
overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples,
to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also
lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is
written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and
fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt
Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of
serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and
were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened
unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition,
upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that
thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Friday, October 20, 2006

10/20/06, Re: PGS "Public Protest and Complaint"

From: Lyndon Dohms
To: [Church List]
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: PGS "Public Protest and Complaint"

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

In light of the recent "Public Protest and Complaint"
(October 18, 2006) issued by our brothers and sisters
in Prince George, the Session is preparing a response
which (God willing) will be ready for distribution late
next week.

The Session encourages the membership not to judge
hastily in this matter before hearing the response of
your Minister and Elders. For great issues are at
stake that will affect your lives and the lives of
your children for many years to come.

We reaffirm our love for the brethren in Prince George
and for all of you, and we plead with you to heed the
instruction of the inspired Scriptures:

"He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but
his neighbor cometh and searcheth him" Proverbs 18:17.

In the service of Christ our King,

The Session of the RPNA (GM)
Pastor Greg L. Price
Elder Greg Barrow
Elder Lyndon Dohms

Wednesday, October 18, 2006

10/18/06, PGS Public Protest & Complaint

[Any links in the PP&C, have been added.
See also:
10/28/06 Elders' Response to "Public Protest and Complaint" of SPG]

From: Society of PG (RPNA)
To: List
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:00 PM
Subject: PGS Public Protest & Complaint
Attach: PGS_PublicProtest. pdf (54.9 KB)

Dear brethren,
Knowing our Lord's mercies are 'new every morning', we respectfully submit this to you by way of public protest and complaint.
We remain,
Yours in Christ,
Society of Prince George

October 18, 2006

Tuesday, October 17, 2006

10/17/06, Response to Compromising Oaths

1 Reply to Elders/Oath of Elders
2 Subsequent Public Cover Letter to 1


From: Bob S
To: Lyndon Dohms
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:09 PM

Dear Lyndon,

I am sorry, but this is the best I can or will do by way of receipt, in that among other things, I would respectfully note that I keep hearing from others in the church that cannot get a reply or receipt of their communications with you or the other elders. In which case, I am sorry, but I am not really setting the standard or the precedent in all this. Others are and respectfully they will have to answer for it if I read the Scriptures correctly. If I am wrong about that, you may of course say something, but respectfully I don't think I will be hearing from you any time soon, if at all.

Even further if I may say so, I have been in a number of P&R churches previously, but if this situation now doesn't beat all, I don't know what.

Wednesday, October 04, 2006

10/4/06, Elders' Confidential Oath with Accompanying Letter

[Cover Letter]

From: Lyndon Dohms
To: _________
Cc: Greg Barrow ; Greg Price
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:28 PM

Dear ___,

Please confirm receipt of the attached document, by a reply email to all the Members of Session. (Pastor Greg Price, Elder Greg Barrow, and Elder Lyndon Dohms).

thank you,

Elder Lyndon Dohms

Clerk of Session


[Attached (PDF)]

October 4, 2006

Dear ___,

Please confirm receipt of this document immediately by email to the Members of Session: Pastor Greg Price, Elder Greg Barrow, and Elder Lyndon Dohms.

10/4/06, The New "Confidential Oath" of Membership in the RPNA(GM)

(Extracted from the accompanying Letter of 10/4/06 from the former RPNA elders to various parties)

I, ________, freely and voluntarily, according to my own conscience and not being induced or compelled by any unlawful external means, by the grace of God and in the name of Jesus Christ, sincerely, in the plain and common sense of these terms, without equivocation or mental reservation, formally testify that I, ________, in no way knowingly disagree with any of the five Terms of Membership of the RPNA (GM), or any of the six Terms of Communion of the RPNA (GM) inclusive of its published position papers (namely, “A Brief Defence Of Dissociation In The Present Circumstances”, “A Brief Testimony Against The Practice Of Occasional Hearing”, “The Common Cup: Evaluated From A Biblical, Historical, And Medical Perspective”, “The Practice Of Headcoverings In Public Worship”, “A Reformation Discussion Of Extraordinary Predictive Prophecy Subsequent To The Closing Of The Canon Of Scripture”, “Reformed Presbytery In North America Deed Of Constitution”, and “Position Paper And Response To Questions Circulated About Sessional Authority Within The RPNA (General Meeting)”), and I formally testify that I own the authority of the Session of the RPNA (GM) in both its extraordinary form and jurisdiction, which is presently comprised of Pastor Greg Price, Ruling Elder Greg Barrow, and Ruling Elder Lyndon Dohms, as that Presbyterian Church Court, which is both lawful and faithful to the true Covenanted testimony of Jesus Christ and is agreeable to the Scripture and to all of the Subordinate Documents [i.e. Standards - RPV] of the RPNA (GM). I further testify, in the name of Christ, that I do and will willingly submit to the Session of the RPNA (GM) (in so far as they conform to the Word of God), and that I will endeavor to conduct myself in this upcoming Court proceeding truthfully, honestly and charitably.

This signed oath must be returned to the Clerk of the Court, Elder Lyndon Dohms in papercopy (_____ ____, _______ ____, AB _______), or by email (in a PDF file with signature),at the following email address, lwdohms@___________ by 12 AM, Wednesday, October 18, 2006.

Dear Member, the Court appeals to you not only from the authority of Christ, but also from the love of Christ to fulfill this duty incumbent upon you as a Member of the RPNA (GM).